In gesprek met ‘n Moslem

You are a muslim although you self-profess that you’re more of a world-religion person, open to other religions as to where they “meet” each other.  You agree on some Christian “things”, but have a problem with other “things”.  Maybe its just misunderstanding of words, ideas!

You say you have a problem with our “3 gods”.  It is not difficult to understand: in the physical world,  H2O can be in 3 different forms (water, ice and steam).  The creator of all this, shouldn’t have a problem in creating 3 modes of the Trinity.  The Trinity is to us 3 modes of revelations.  He revealed himself to humanity as God the Father, mostly in the Old Testament times.  He revealed Himself to humanity by walking this earth for 33 years as Jesus, the chosen Messiah sent by God.  After this He is with us as Holy Spirit.  Al 3 modes of the Trinitarian ONE God was there from the beginning.  Its not as if God created them “as they became necessary”.  Of course, we can never fully explain God, but at least we can try and explain what He Himself revealed to us, in human words. 

We therefore do not believe in 3 gods, as you say, but 1 God, working to our salvation as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  Jesus is not just a prophet as you say.  A prophet is still just human and has the same limitation as all of us (sin) to not be a saviour.  To be a saviour, “the person” must be holy, without sin, but still human to identify with us.  Jesus is this “person”.  He was without sin and walked this earth.  Its not only us that says this about Jesus.  He was even declared the son of God, Holy God by the devils themselves (Mark 1:24). 

Why are we so adamant about Jesus?  Because mankind and all religions proved that man can not save himself.  We do not have the capacity to do good enough to fulfill the requirements of being without sin.  God is clearly against sin (Ex 34:17) and hates sin.  The wages of sin is death.  The only way we can escape this, is by being without sin and that we can’t.  That is why we need a Saviour who is without sin to be able to “pay” for our sins.  No other man, but God Himself.

Doing good things?  Yes, they are important in many different ways, but it is not the doing of the good things that save us.  Jesus saves us.  The good things we do because we had a change of heart and feel for others; because we want to thank God for the free saving grace of salvation (which we did nothing to contribute to).

Even the 5 pillars of faith (monotheism, prayer, als-giving, fasting & pilgramage) – we wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with them.  But to us:

  • they are not “laws” required for salvation, because our salvation lies in Jesus Christ the Messiah
  • they might be good to practice, to live by, but still doesn’t contribute to our salvation.

We have a few problems with what we see from your followers (as you have problems with our followers), proving that we shouldn’t look at the followers (yes, that’s difficult because the followers are the proponents of the religion) for guidance, but the God of the creation.   

  1. The prophet: He is not holy, without sin.  He is not the Son of God.  He is “just another prophet” (and I don’t mean any disrespect here), as was all the prophets in the old testament.
  2. He did things that would’ve raised huge problems today, for example marrying a 9 year old girl, having a concubine etc..  I wouldn’t necessarily “follow” someone who does these things that’s attributed to him. 
    – he wiped out a Jewish tribe in Medina ; married 30+ wives, etc.  To say that he marry all these “poor” women (widows) because he was so good-hearted is naive; c’mmon?  You don’t take that serious?  Shame, poor old JZ who have to marry all these South-African women.  
  3. He can be a prophet, but he can not be a Saviour.  Nobody, not even the devils said about him what they said about Jesus.
  4. The muslim view on the position of women and the appaling attrocities that have been done to women raises questions to me about the “holiness” or qualities of the prophet who initiated this.  Have you heard Wafa Sultan?   We knew a muslim lady who cried virtually every day about the things happening in her house, about the way she was treated as a human being; as part of God’s creation.

I’m not trying to proselyte you, just trying to clear your misconception on the Trinity, and why I do have questions about the muslim faith.

 Other interesting reading:
* Answeringinfidels
* 9 year old wife, Aisha

4 responses to “In gesprek met ‘n Moslem

  1. firstly,the jewish tribe that was wiped out in medina had broken a peace treaty(no action was taken),followed that up by aiding an enemy in war(they were exiled),the tribe persisted in their offenses by commiting robberies,murders and continually disregarded the terms of exile,only then were they captured and judged as per the laws of JEWS for their crimes and “wiped out”.
    secondly,the prophet has never been claimed as the son of god.he was and is the MESSENGER of the final word of god which is supposed to be a guide for mankind.
    lastly,the atrocities against women are committed by perverts they werent taught by the prophet.

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  2. Pingback: Posts about Holy Spirit as of April 7, 2009 | PRAYtheREVOLUTION

  3. Die modalistiese beskouing oor die natuur van God het natuurlik nog nooit deel uitgemaak van ‘n ortodokse Christelike leer oor die Drie-eenheid nie en word pertinent ontken. Die Drie-eenheidsleer verduidelik dat drie onderskeibare persone die Goddelike natuur deelagtig is. God manifesteer dus nie maar net in drie vorme (modes) nie. Die analogie met water se drie bestaansvorme is daarom nie akkuraat of hulpvol nie. ‘n Spesifieke hoeveelheid water bestaan slegs in een vorm op ‘n slag, en nie in al drie vorme gelyk nie. In teenstelling hiermee bestaan God noodwendig as drie persone in ‘n voortdurende en ononderbroke verhouding tot mekaar.

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    • Hallo Udo, weereens my “disclaimer” op jou vorige koement. Ek probeer nie ‘n dogmatiek-werk skryf nie. Natuurlik is die beeld van H2O absoluut ontoereikend – wie kan tog die Gans Andere God regtig “verklaar” en die Drie-eenheid in mense-woorde omsit? Maar met dit gese, het die beeld al talle jongmense (en nie-Christene wat reken ons aanbid 3 gode) gehelp om darem net ‘n beter prentjie te he oor die Drie-Eenheid teenoor drie onafhanklike gode. Dit het my nie in die verlede gehelp om Prof Heyns, of Karl Barth of andere groot dogmatici se werke oor die Drie-eenheid aan hulle voor te hou nie.

      Weereens, ek dink nie ons verskil regtig nie; my oogmerke en “target” gehoor het in hierdie geval die inhoud bepaal (laat my dink aan die Bybel🙂 konteks, skrywer, leser, tipe boek).

      Groete

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